SEP 07

For those of you who don't know, there's a company out there that's attracted the interest of venerable venture capitalists, established corporations, politicians, and even a few bloggers with claims that seem nearly impossible. Now, this isn't Steorn, it's not free energy. What they're talking about is possible without re-writing the laws of physics. But what they say they can do would change things. A lot of things.

EEStor says that they are working on an "electrical energy storage unit" (EESU - explained in more detail here, if you're curious) that would hold ten times the amount of power as todays most advanced batteries at the same weight. This  storage unit would be able to charge and recharge infinitely without any loss of capacity and charging time (with enough power) could be brought down to three or four minutes. The storage units can be infinitely stacked together for applications as small as watch batteries and as large as grid-level power storage. And, of course, the technology is 10 times cheaper than lithium ion batteries. In short. it all sounds too good to be true.

I wouldn't even be wrting about this if EEStor didn't have investments from very smart people and contracts with very large companies. But that doesn't mean I'm not still skeptical. Smart people have been duped before. But because EEStor has been in the news an awful lot, and their strategic partner ZENN Motors says that they will be putting these devices into cars by early next year, let's try and figure out what this would mean for the world.

1. Electric cars, of course, would become much more practical. While the EESU wouldn't be able to charge in 5 minutes at home with a 220 volt plug, it could charge in five minutes at high-power charging stations. This infrastructure would have to be built however, and the technology isn't cheap. Just like hydrogen or ethanol or Better Place's battery swapping stations, EESU's would require new infrastructure. The only electric vehicles that do not require new infrastructure are cars designed not to travel out of the city and cars with on-board, gas-powered generators like the Volt.
2. ZENN Motor company currently has exclusive rights to put EESU's in four-wheeled vehicles that weigh less than 3,000 lbs. ZENN will likely sell those rights fairly quickly if the EESU pans out. If they don't, we'll be stuck with lithium ion for a while anyway.
3. However, companies working on next-generation batteries for electric vehicles, including A123, LG Chem, GM, Tesla, Toyota and many more, will find themselves with a lot of useless research on their hands. Lithium ion batteries will never hit the numbers EEStor has claimed for it's EESU.
4. Battery swapping technology may or may not become completely obsolete. Project Better Place's system of swapping out batteries to reduce the need for charging batteries could be used for EESU's instead of batteries. However, it's difficult for me to imagine that high-power quick-charging infrastructure wouldn't be far cheaper than battery-swapping facilities.
5. Renewable energy sources would become much more viable. Currently, options for storing power generated during windy or sunny times of the day are limited and inefficient. An EEStor grid-level battery could store power for use at other times during the day at a comparatively low cost.
6. The world might actually see a significant reduction in carbon dioxide emissions because of the EESU.

Let's remember, there are a lot of "if"s here. EEStor's technology could be viable, but costs could rise, imperfections could be found. It's very possible that the EESU will hit the market and lithium ion batteries will remain competitive with the new technology. Time will tell...I'm looking forward to it.

Comments (21)

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written by EV, September 07, 2009

A good comparison, would be to look at the claimed energy density of these capacitors over that of existing capacitors. The biggest question here is how they managed an order of magnitude (or so) improvement over existing capacitors. Technology like this usually advances in steps, not leaps and bounds.

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If they pan out, aren't they their own Qcharge infrastructure?
written by BruceMcF, September 07, 2009

After all, the trick with Q-chargs is the massive but brief burst of power required. So a steady industrial strength electrical connection charging banks of EEStores at the quick charge station, and there is your massive but brief burst of power.

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"EE-day" is coming soon
written by "EEshock", September 08, 2009

This is the second coming with regards to transportation and many other industries. EESTOR is poised to reveal their energy density capabilities and demo a real product as soon as September, which is upon us...Stay tuned.

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How many times will they sell the same story
written by the truth, September 08, 2009

This story has been out there since Kleiner got duped 3 years ago. At the time, Kleiner Perkins just got into "clean-tech" and put $5M into this "disruptive technology" which was supposed to demonstrate their first capacitor in April 2008. It has been 18 months, and all we keep getting are great stories through ZENN, who seem to inflate their share price for a brief moment every once in a while. If you want to monitor the reality of these stories, notice that Kleiner didn't (1) put any more money into the company and (2) didn't hype it for the last 2 years. So, if you want to use the "smart money" angle on why this might happen, see what the smart money really does. By the way, next time you use Kleiner as reference for smart money I have one word for you "Segway"...

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Same old same old
written by Matthew Peffly, September 08, 2009

- Until we see something working, all of use little people out in the woods will have to assume it is vapor ware and hope it isn't.
- It is true "most" improvements in technology are incurmental, except when they are not.
Time will tell

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Read this list
written by Kevin, September 08, 2009

This is a comprehensive list of the public statements made by Zenn management and EEStor management over the years that this story has been in the public eye:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2999

If you take the time to read through that whole list of quotes, and read the articles from which they are culled, I think it's pretty difficult to put a positive spin on this story.

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Inventor
written by Drew, September 08, 2009

I am sure this is hard technology. Every technology person I have ever worked with underestimates the time it will take to make something work, especially something as disruptive as this is. In the end, this is something we could commit to as a country, the way we committed to putting a man on the moon. This is a game changer for the country and the world.

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EEStor Crazies = Geniuses
written by B, September 09, 2009

If EEStor is real, you can add this to your list: all the crazy EEStor followers at TheEEStory.com suddenly look like geniuses.

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written by Tom Lakosh, September 10, 2009

http://theeestory.com/files/SchauerLetter.pdf
If ZENN is actually seeking DOE funding, they will have to demonstrate the EESU functionality and we'll know in a hurry whether it's a dud and they get squat or Secy Chu hands them a $1 billion check, and it's really one or the other given their claims.

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Secrecy = monopoly
written by Ross Plecash, September 10, 2009

It is quite possible that the secrecy that surrounds this technology is an attempt to prevent the intellectual property rights from leaking away in countries that have had bad records enforcing IP laws. If you had a technology that the entire world would be switching over to, wouldn't you want to keep it close to your chest until you were ready? Or would you release details all the way along so a potential competitor could leap into the market without spending all the R&D money? Publically traded companies need to release info to keep generating investment, but this privately held firm appears to be well-funded enough to do their R&D without outside investors. If this works like they say, there are going to be some more VERY rich people in Texas!

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Show me the production version
written by Chas Martin, September 10, 2009

I've been through a few startups. All that glitters is not viable. I really want to believe this is possible. I have a lot of faith in innovators who explore the unknown to solve problems in ways that "can't be done".
Let's see it in action. But, remember, the EV1 worked, but was killed for other reasons....

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written by C.J., September 10, 2009

I once crunched all the numbers described here http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5557 , which was previously posted here on ecogeek, in hopes of submitting a story to slashdot. My focus was finding the maximum volume and capacitance of each individual capacitor, anyways, the specific numbers are lost, but I remember that the ratio of capacitance to volume was actually below currently sold electrolytic capacitors, except that EEStor capacitors were rated at 5000 V, which is something we currently have no use for. I found that very interesting, exploiting a technical limitation that no one else cares to surmount. While increasing area within a capacitor is a serious manufacturing limitation, raising rating is much less of one. Maybe someone here cares to crunch the numbers so we can discuss it further...

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You lie!
written by Eric, September 11, 2009

j/k hehe I hope this dream comes true because it will save the world!

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written by C.J., September 11, 2009

In engineering, new faults always arise, but yes, this is world changing, specially with a price tag of only 2000 dollars for a 51 kwh unit, mind you that's the initial deployment price. Even if this company can't deliver, I believe capacitors with higher voltage ratings is something that can be easily achieved, at least when compared with increasing surface area within a capacitor, or electrode dimensional integrity within a battery.

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written by hyperspaced, September 12, 2009

If their claims are true, these batteries will revolutionize the industry. Not only they can hold more energy, but their ability to quickly recharge will allow better kinetic energy capturing.

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Limited believes
written by MikeChase, September 16, 2009

Before the Wright Brothers human flight was considered impossible,
Today we cant image life with out it.. same Space Travel.
I think its about time for this new revolution.
Just don't be held back by a old belief structure..

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hopeful, but not holding my breath
written by BrianS, September 16, 2009

This has the most potential since cold fusion!
I hope it pans out better than c.f., but I'll wait to get excited when I actually see it out and working.

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Not so unreasonable.
written by Ormond Otvos, September 17, 2009

The difficulties seem to lie not in theory, but manufacture. I will just remind you than micromanufacture of films of exotic materials has advanced by leaps and bounds, not incremental steps, and this is basic physics of capacitors.

Every day sciencedaily and physorg put out twenty or thirty geewhiz articles that detail advances in nanomaterials, biology, and materials science.

Where's the big surprise. So they make capacitors with thinner films of higher capacity to hold charge and stack up 32 thousand layers and stick 5000v on them. Ever worked with a television CRT? Seems like 30kv was no big deal then. My scooter has a 40kv spark coil with zillions of turns of very fine wire. Impossible, you say?

I will buy a Zenn as soon as it has the 100 mile capacity these capacitors will give it.

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written by C.J., September 17, 2009

Seems I saved some of the number crunching I did. Each capacitor would have to be around 1000 uF and maximum volume of 2.37 cm^3, and as already mentioned, tolerance of 5000 V. Ormond Otvos, those high voltages are probably achieved with inductors, inductors release stored energy in volts and capacitors in current.

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What I do not understand
written by Desertstraw, September 19, 2009

What can be the motivation of the people at Eestor if they do not have something. It can't be a stock scam because you can't invest in Eestor unless you buy some Zenn stock.

Why Eester has given Zenn so much in exchange for a paltry investment.

How the production facility can be kept so secret. If Eestor has anything like what is claimed they are a major threat to billion dollar companies. Surely, they would hire the best investigators to determine what is really going on and some of this information would be leaked.

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Want some really fun reading?
written by Doc Rings, October 08, 2009

Go to the EEstor website, and start reading the "Quantum Battery" thread... wow. Now there's something that is even more incredible: a battery that is theoretically capable of holding 56KwH in a 12Kg battery pack.
The invited scientists get a chance to chat with the patent holder/inventor on his quantum battery. Puts EEstor's claims to shame, even...

http://www.theeestory.com/topics/1103

Quantum Battery homepage:
http://quantumbattery.ch/drupal-6.13/

Cheers, but stay skeptical,
Doc

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