NOV 20

You're thinking too localized. The problem is energy storage. The wind makes power 24/7, even when businesses aren't open. If the energy isn't stored, it goes unused. But there is no reason that the ice needs to be generated at the site of the turbine. Companies could have their on-site ice makers running all night long using the cheaper off-peak wind power. The ice could be made, stored and used where the cooling is needed, not where the power is made.

What is going on with ecogeek. I use to read it every day and there was atleast one new post a day. Now there i only one every three or four days. Is everything okay??

Shane is on track. The ice is generated at the point of use, i.e. the customer produces the ice and it is used as the heat sink for the customers building during the next day. What is needed for maximum efficiency is an interconnect between the power utility and the customers system control such that when the utility has excess power capability on line it can tell the customer system to start the ice making process. The customer will save money on the following days reduced energy requirement for air conditioning, but only of course if the nightime electricity is charged at a significantly reduced rate. The same idea could extend to electric car battery recharging, grid connected battery backed home or business solar / wind installations, or indeed with water heating. Other ideas are home appliances like clothes washing / drying, it doesn´t matter what time of day that the washing is done, only that it is done sometime.

It's not really particularly useful exclusively for wind energy-- it's more to level the high day and low nighttime electric demand. It's useful for places with high air conditioning loads during peak daytime demand. What is significant is the cost-- 1 cubic meter of ice is 93kWh. Lithium batteries are now around $1000/kWh (even if $500/kWh they are used at 50% to extend lifetime), so at these prices a block of water is worth almost as much as a house. Some utility-scale batteries are approaching $200-300/kWh. If storage is worth $100/kWh, then 1 m3 of water is worth $9265.

Where I live, the difference in retail price between peak daytime and nighttime electricity is $.30/kWh (.41 summer-peak .11 off peak) with time-of-day billing. (And you wonder why Bakersfield was upset when smart-meters were installed with switch to TOD billing.) So 1m3 of water could store $28 per day of cooling energy!

Besides building air, the concept could be applied to other cooling, e.g. grocery store refrigerators. An ice tank inside could freeze water overnight so power can be shut off during peak use times.

The thermal energy and refrigerator heat-pump electricity aren't directly comparable, but the heat pump also doesn't need to work as hard with cooler nighttime temperatures.

I live here in Illinois and am now surrounded by wind farms. the best use of off hour electricity is just around the corner in the form of the electric car. Once the plug in model is made available (hopefully shortly) the prime charging time will be at night when the electrical consumption is normally low and the access can be used up instead of wasted. So buy a plug in and do us all a favor in so many ways. LIVE GREEN, BE GREEN.

@Gekkor:
Danger of global cooling? You're joking I hope. Making ice involves moving the heat out of the ice chamber. It doesn't involve destroying heat.

The only potential risk of global cooling by this method is if burning fossil fuels is what's staving off the next ice age.

I think Gekkor is winding us up!
Nice idea. Agree with the problem that ice isn't always needed, but at the same time, isn't conduction of electricity more effective when the conductors are cooled? So if it were kept at the generator it would also have that benefit, even if not needed elsewhere?

... storage is not a serious hurdle up through 20% Wind, given the generating capacity we have at present, so any serious "storage problem" much further into the roll-out of volatile renewable power sources than many people like to suggest ... but irrespective of that, this is a quite interesting technology. Combining ice for cooling air and solar thermal during the day for dehumidifying air and it would be possible to substantially trim the present summer peak electricity demand.

True. To be cost efficient requires that the machine make something valuable as a by-product.

Here's an off-set idea. How about putting all the ice in the polar ice caps. That might help stop the ice-thinning.

It could actually be used for energizing individual homes. I am curious to how many canisters would be needed, and if it is even worth the trouble considering how it would be transported.

Are you guys putting us on or do you seriously think that the ice has to be transported rather than manufactured at your home?

These systems are already in use all over the country, and are in no way unique to renewable energy. The fact that wind blows harder at night makes this approach a bit more appealing for areas w/ wind power, but it's already cost effective just to level out the peaks in demand with traditional power generation.

It's a good, common-sense idea... but it's just nothing new.

Here are the locations of a couple facilities in Chicago if you want to map it and see aerial photos.

137 S State St, Chicago, IL 60603

448 S Franklin St, Chicago, IL 60607

Erik, your individual comments may be valid, but they don't really have anything to do with this post.

Electricity in the grid may be the most useful form for our generation capacity, but it's only useful because it's flexible - if you can't use that electricity to do anything (i.e. if there's no demand), then it's more useful to do something with it than to waste it. Hence, producing ice, heating molten salts, compressing air, charging PHEVs...all ways of storing energy.

Industrial waste heat is only a usable resource for industry. Pumping water for cooling requires electricity (another medium of electrical storage, if you have sufficient infrastructure). Industrial scale flywheel storage would be extremely expensive, not trivially complicated, and has to deal with mechanical efficiency losses as well as electrical ones. It's certainly no magic bullet, which is why you haven't seen it implemented on a significant scale.

It's good if we can store the wind power with out battery or will need sth more expensive than a battery?

Where there is plenty of wind and not enough sun (therefore no need for air conditioning)

... since its not restricted to AC, it can be used anytime there is a heavier cooling load during peak time than off peak. Supermarket and servo refrigerators and freezers, which get opened and closed during business hours and have much more work to do than overnight, are one example. After moving from vertical to drawer refrigerators and freezers for the home, a bottom drawer that is just for making ice off-peak to be used to help cool the others on-peak would be an application.

This is a nice idea in fanatasy, and may be workeable for a pew peoplehre e and there, but it's not serious.

Also, I don't know where the idea was promulgated that "the wind blows harder at night".

Baloney.

It depends on where you are and what your localized weather patterns are, but usually the subtraction of the sun's energy from the equation results in less kinetic energy, not more.

Every fisherman knows that the wind usually dies down in the evening and is usually calm in the early morning, but will generally pick up as the day progresses. It's not always true everywhere, but I think it it is usually true in a generalized way. Certainly not the opposite, as was suggested.

Hey, the idea of storing energy for wind and solar is good for the planet. The idea of shifting regular power usage to off peek is good for saving money but not necessarily "green" as it does not reduce the fuel used just the cost of building more capacity for peek times. This idea will not be helpful until we have enough wind/solar/clean power sources to idle all the oil, coal, nuke and otherwise pouting generation sites in a grid segment. Until then generate all you want and the grid itself will soak it up and reduce pollutant emission and conserve resources